Strategies for Life Design & Meaningful Leadership with Gail Golden

Adrienne Garland: [0:00] Leadership isn't just changing. It's evolving in ways we're only just beginning to imagine. And women, we're not playing this game anymore. We're the ones reshaping the entire field, building models, movements, and businesses that serve more than just a few. On the She Leads podcast, you'll hear real conversations with women who've broken through all kinds of barriers, revenue, identity, borders, and expectations. There's no sugar coating here, just the truth told by those who are living it. I'm Adrienne Garland, entrepreneur, strategist, educator, and creator of live experiences, gathering women leaders together for over a decade. And this is the She Leads podcast. Hi everybody and welcome back to the She Leads podcast. I am so, so excited to welcome my next guest. Her name is Gail Golden and she provides strategic coaching to reveal what's really going on so leaders like you can make rapid, accurate decisions to create breakthrough change. Gail draws on her unique cross-background perspective and helps senior leaders and teams hit peak performance. She's a licensed psychologist and an MBA holding entrepreneur. She masters both the emotions and the economics that successful senior leaders must master. Gail's unique approach combines sports-influenced performance coaching with psychology-trained skills of empathy to bring the best out of business leaders and employees. Her book, Curating Your Life, based on more than two decades of helping leaders of all types maximize their achievements, is out now. So, make sure to grab it. Curating Your Life is full of advice on how to identify and accomplish your most important goals. And her TEDx talk illustrates and elaborates on how to successfully curate your life. I cannot wait to dive into everything today. Gail, welcome to the She Leads Podcast.

Gail Golden: [2:00] Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.

Adrienne Garland: [2:02] Well, I am so excited to see you again because you were a featured keynote speaker at She Leads Live Los Angeles, which was a breakthrough moment really for me because our She Leads Live conference has never been produced or executed outside of New York City. So, that was a growth moment for me personally and for She Leads Live. So, I'm so excited that you were a part of that. Before we were chatting, before we were recording, we were talking so much about the women entrepreneurs that have, you know, they've established their business, they're successful, they're they're going toward that $1 million mark, or maybe they've even gotten there. And they realize that something's got to change.

Gail Golden: [2:47] Indeed, it is. Yeah. Yeah.

Adrienne Garland: [2:49] So, can you talk a little bit about your work and how Curating Your Life, it really applies to leadership, but also to women entrepreneurs that are not only curating their business, but they're also curating their life to support the growth of their business?

Gail Golden: [3:03] Absolutely. Adrien, do you want me to take a minute to just talk a little about the curating your life framework first and then we'll hone in on this particular challenge. Does that make sense?

Adrienne Garland: [3:12] Beautiful. I would love that.

Gail Golden: [3:14] Okay. So, keeping it brief, I spent the first half of my career as a psychotherapist and then switched over into leadership consulting and coaching. Very different groups of people that I was working with. But curiously, there was one problem that nearly every one of my clients talked about: feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, and inadequate most of the time. Didn't matter if I was talking with a global CEO or a stay-at-home mom. I kept hearing about this same problem. Meanwhile, we all know there's a simple answer to that problem, work-life balance. Except it doesn't work. I've never met anybody who has a balanced life, and the concept doesn't seem to be helping us get our arms around this problem. So, I thought, well, okay, there's got to be a better way to think about and manage those, the challenges of our lives so that we don't have to feel overwhelmed, exhausted, and inadequate most of the time, which frankly is a crummy way to feel. I started thinking about how a curator puts together an exhibit. And I thought, okay, first the curator has to figure out what is the exhibit about, what's the theme, what's the focus, what matters. And then she has to make three difficult choices. The first one is what doesn't belong in the exhibit? It might be a beautiful piece of art, but it doesn't belong. It's it's by Van Gogh and this is an exhibit about Picasso. It doesn't belong in the exhibit. Second, what goes into the exhibit, but it's it's goes in one of the side rooms for the people that are really interested. It's not the main thing. And finally, what are the two or three magnificent pieces that are the focus that will hang in the great hall? And I thought, what if we were to think about our life the way that curator thinks about her exhibit? First of all, get very clear about at this time in my life what's important, what is my life exhibit about. It could be all kinds of things and it's very personal, could be work related, could be personal, could be health related, could be I want to change the world, I mean lots of different examples of that, but get clear and by the way, probably max two or three things that you can have it as the at the key focus. Once you figure that out, which by the way is not always so easy, the next step is to take a look what you're doing and start saying no.

Adrienne Garland: [5:17] That's hard.

Gail Golden: [5:18] Oh, very hard. First, partly because some of the things you're going to need to say no to, you might actually like doing them, but they really don't fit in your exhibit. Or it may mean you have to disappoint somebody who really wants you to do that thing, but it doesn't fit in your exhibit. And I could tell a story about that if you'd like, but I'll move on for.

Adrienne Garland: [5:43] We're going to go back to that.

Gail Golden: [5:45] Okay. And and so once you figured out what doesn't go in the exhibit, which is hard, next steps, even harder for people like you and me, which is you have to figure out the things that you have to do, but you do not have to be great at them. You just have to be good enough. You're hitting you're hitting me hard today.

Adrienne Garland: [6:04] I mean, I I I talk about this as embracing mediocrity.

Gail Golden: [6:07] Right? All the things. And here's the here's the the stickler on this. The fact is we're already mediocre at a lot of the things we do, we just feel guilty about it, which is a waste of our energy instead of saying that's not the big thing for me, so I'm going to be just good enough at that. You know, just Yeah. All those things. And that's a lot of stuff. The good news is if you figure out what to eliminate and then you figure out where it's okay to be good enough, you will have the energy to do the things that are your greatness, that are the things that really matter, that make your life meaningful. So that's the framework. Again, I don't pretend any of this is easy. I also think nobody else has the answers for you. You have to figure out for yourself what your exhibit, how to design your life exists. That's the framework.

Adrienne Garland: [7:10] Gail, this I want to stop and just kind of take a moment to really let that framework settle in our listeners' ears because it is so powerful on a multitude of levels. Everything from, you know, saying no to to really sort of picking the magnificent pieces to showcase. I think what's really great about this framework too, just like a gallery, it's not static, right? So those exhibits change and so too can the focus in our lives change and I think that that is so relevant and especially important for women entrepreneurs that have started out and they have had a vision for the business that they want to create and they go all in on that and then they get to a certain point in their business where maybe that gallery needs to switch out the paintings.

Gail Golden: [8:06] Well, very much so. In fact, I would even say if your exhibit, your life exhibit doesn't change from time to time, something's wrong with your life.

Adrienne Garland: [8:14] Yeah.

Gail Golden: [8:15] You know, you you are not growing, you are not changing, you are not open to new experiences. And those upheavals can be really hard. Sometimes they come out of you and what matters to you. Sometimes you get fired and you have to figure out what happens next or your company falls apart and you have to start again. So there are all kinds of things that happen. And yes, recurating is a regular part of this process just as a museum that never changes its exhibits is going to be boring and people will stop going to it.

Adrienne Garland: [9:02] That's right. I I love this parallel. I think it is it's so apropos and I also think what's really neat about it is I talk about this a lot, something that I don't think that we're necessarily taught as we're sort of you know going through school and making choices of where to go to college and maybe grad school and doctorates is people don't necessarily stop to ask us like what do we want and they don't give us the the tools to sort of move in and out of working for somebody, starting your own business. So we We get very wrapped up in our identities of how we are working at least here in the United States right so how does one move from let's say corporate leader she's you know risen through the ranks.

Adrienne Garland: [9:55] And that's been amazing and then all of a sudden that doesn't work anymore for life circumstances or like you said the change in the corporate structure and she decides to go out and start this business on on her own and she's and so this is like identity number two or maybe you know three and then like I said she has she starts this business it's successful and then she wants to go to that you know 1 5 10 $50 million mark and realizes gosh like the corporate identity doesn't fit the the startup woman entrepreneur identity doesn't fit how do I curate that next thing if I if I literally don't have a vision because I've never done this before.

Gail Golden: [10:56] Yeah. Right now, I hear you talking about two big recurations. The first one out of corporate leadership into running my own business, which is which is a biggie. It's a huge leap can be terri wonderfully exciting and I'm happy to talk about that. The second one is okay, I started it, it's been successful, I've grown it to this level. What matters to me now and what should how should I be spending my energy now to to reach whatever that next level of greatness is that I'm looking to reach.

Adrienne Garland: [11:47] So, do we want to talk about both of those transitions or Yes? I I mean, I would much rather focus on the transition of women that are going from successful entrepreneur to that next level because I do think that that is something that so many people in the She Leads audience are if they're not there, they're going to get there.

Gail Golden: [12:12] Right. Right. So, You know, I'll start by just reminiscing for a moment about when I when I excuse me started Gail Golden Consulting, which I had been working for five and a half years for a consulting firm that this was right after I had moved into consulting. And so it was very good for me to spend five years learning from people who were more experienced how to do this, how to sell this, how to work on it, all those kinds of things. May of 2009, some of us may remember, was a pretty awful financial crisis.

Adrienne Garland: [13:00] Yes. Yes.

Gail Golden: [13:01] And on one brutal morning, my company laid off a third of all the consultants in one day and I got a very nice package for for to get out of the way. It was May of 2009. It took me two weeks to realize that if I wanted a job, I had to create it because nobody was hiring consultants. It was just it was a very bad time in the in the economy. So, I started Gail Golden Consulting and went off to work. Now, my strategy in the first year or so, two things I guess. One was say yes. Whatever people ask you to do, if you can possibly figure out how to do it, say yes. So, and that's not a bad strategy for a business that's just starting out is to to be as broad and as open as I can to whatever opportunities are coming my way.

Adrienne Garland: [14:02] Right?

Gail Golden: [14:03] Frankly, the other strategy in that first year or two was be less expensive than the other people. But here I am. I've been trained by this excellent consulting firm. I knew what they were billing me out at. I cut it in half. So you could now have a consultant who was trained at that level for half the price. Nice. And that was how Gail Golden Consulting got started. And we took off quite quickly and had lots of business at a time when you know consulting was was not the big business that it is. now. So that was great strategy for them. But I'll tell you, you know, it's now I just celebrated 16 years.

Adrienne Garland: [14:48] Congratulations. That's no small feat.

Gail Golden: [14:50] Thank you. Uh say yes is no longer my primary nor is being cheaper than everybody else.

Adrienne Garland: [15:02] Right.

Gail Golden: [15:03] My my threat.

Adrienne Garland: [15:05] Love to hear that. Thank you.

Gail Golden: [15:06] So So one of the things that has to change is your strategy, right? Is how you think. about what am I doing with this business? What is my competitive advantage? Who is my target audience? You know, all of that kind of strategic thinking needs to be different when you're at the million dollar mark than when you're at the Z mark or to do those very early years. I think that's one piece. The other piece, I think, is that when you're starting out, you really have to be willing to do it all, right? I mean, when I started out, I I was the marketing department. I was the the the uh figure out sort of the administrative paper, the bookkeeping department, the you know go out and smooze with people department and the delivery the service delivery department. It was it was all me over time as you you can't keep doing that if you want to grow to a million dollars. It's not it's not going to be possible. So so then it becomes a matter of what what should I delegate? What do I want to delegate? And sometimes I have to delegate things I'd rather I'd like to do myself. But it's not. Well, I'll share with you I think a really important lesson later from one of my clients. He was a senior executive at a at a major financial institution. And one day he said to me, "Gail, my motto is only do what only you can do".

Adrienne Garland: [16:32] Only do what only you can do. Love it.

Gail Golden: [16:35] Now, it's it's aspirational, right? I mean, we all take out the garbage sometimes because it needs to be taken out even though other people could. And the same thing is true in our work lives. But if you are running million-doll company, you should be thinking about what are the tasks that only I can do and what what can I delegate? Simple example for me was I used to make make my own PowerPoint slides and guess what? They looked awful. I'm not a physically gifted. The content was good but the look of the slidesh you know amateurish.

Gail Golden: [17:15] And finally one day I had this really brilliant brainstorm that I could hire a graphic artist who could do those slides in like a tenth of the time that it took me and they look gorgeous, you know, and I've been using her ever since. So, you know, only do what only you can do, I think, is one of the most valuable guides as you look at how you're spending your energy and especially in a in a business that has grown and you're now trying to take it to the next level. Look at what you're spending your time on. Is this something that only I can do?

Adrienne Garland: [17:58] Well, here's the thing. Women are amazing and we can do incredible things across a multitude of arenas. I know that I'm even speaking for myself. I I'm I'm the type of person that I can do things from building a deck, okay, to making the best hamburger that you've ever tasted in your life. Right?

Adrienne Garland: [18:27] But so I think that I'll take I'll take this senior executive male's wisdom and then also say like how can women who are so good, we have to be so good at so many things. How do we discern, you know, what we're so good at? Because I think that there are many things that only women can do. And then that burdens us further. I think men and again sweeping statements but I think men have a an innate ability to hyperfocus on an area and claim that they are you know Superman in this one particular area. And Wonder Woman is the one that she, you know, she not only looks hot but she's also saving the world, right? And she does those two things really Well.

Gail Golden: [19:15] I'll tell you, you saw me shaking my head now, and here's why. I have had both as psychotherapy clients and as coaching clients, really high-powered men who look as if they've got it all together. And you know what? They're feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, and inadequate much of the time.

Gail Golden: [19:40] They don't they manifest it differently. And look, I mean, I I I have never had Elon Musk as a client, so I don't know what Elon Musk god I mean, I know don't know the men at all, so I'm not going to judge it. But the point is, I do think as women, it's a bit of a trap for us to think that men don't have these same struggles.

Gail Golden: [20:07] There are things that are easier for men, for sure. There are also things that are easier for us, for sure. And again, when I think about this only do what only you can do, it doesn't mean do everything you're good at.

Adrienne Garland: [20:30] That's the distinguishing factor. So, so can you talk about that? that really tease that apart because even I am a little confused with that.

Gail Golden: [20:38] So for example, I worked with men who when their children were young, they were busy building their careers and they were very little involved with their children. And 20 years later, they decide, okay, now I have time to be close to my children. Right at the time when their children are pulling away and becoming adults and the heartbreak that that brought to them was horrifying. and it was unfixable. There was nothing at stake with me. They could build an adult relationship with their kids. Sometimes sometimes their kids were so angry at them that it was not fixable. So that's an example where they missed the vote. Only they could be fathers to those children and they didn't do it.

Gail Golden: [21:38] So that's the kind of thing I mean only I could could mother my children. I had three son have three sons. Only I can grandmother my wonderful five grandchildren that I have now. So that for me has to be one of my main elements in my exhibit and that will get in the way of me being able to be a good grandmother. I'm going to think very seriously before I say yes to that.

Gail Golden: [22:15] Only I can well they have other grandmothers but only I can be this grandmother. Right? So so that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about in terms of it's it's both the personal only I can be a wife to my husband. Well, if I want my marriage to last, which I must say so far so good, you know, that has to be a priority and things that get in the way of that often I'm going to have to say no or accept good enough in in those things in order to to be the partner that I want to be. And then in the in the workplace as well then, okay, so Gail Golden Consulting, I'm really the only person that and sell Dale Golden Consulting.

Adrienne Garland: [23:03] Right? I mean, I I've tried using other, you know, people to as as missionary is the wrong word, but you know, salespeople, but no, I mean, if you're going to hire a senior consultant, you want to meet that person.

Gail Golden: [23:18] Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, so that has to be my job. On the other side, when it comes to actually delivering coaching, for example, there are plenty of times when somebody else can actually do it better for that client than So I'm happy to have other people serving clients under the umbrella of Gail Golden Consulting. So yes, I I'm I'm rattling on a bit here, but I think this this only do what you only do what only you can do is is a mantra for both men and women.

Gail Golden: [24:00] It's hard for both men and women. And sometimes we miss the boat by spending a lot of energy on things that really aren't that important.

Adrienne Garland: [24:09] Yeah. Other times we miss the vote by spending a whole bunch of energy on what did I just say? Spending energy on things that aren't important or not spending energy on the things that really matter.

Adrienne Garland: [24:26] Yeah. So, some women get to a point and they realize that, you know, maybe something is not working as well or they're not they're not accelerating at the pace that they would like to, but they might not be aware of some of this. you know, these things that might be getting in their way. Do you have any tips or suggestions for women that are at that stage so that they can sort of step outside of I would say the busyness of of everything that's going on and really do an assessment like you're talking about like well what are those things that matter to me? How how can I curate my life? Like in concept that sounds amazing. It sounds great. I want to do it. How do I do it?

Gail Golden: [25:12] Yeah. Yep. Well, two specific thoughts come to mind. One is to take a look at your calendar. Take a look at what is eating up your time. So many of people that who work in larger organizations that I work with spend incredible amounts of time in meetings that they don't have to be in. Now, sometimes their boss requires them to be in that meeting and you have to be there, but maybe you don't have to be 100% involved. Your body has to be in the room, but your head might be somewhere else. But hopefully, you know, you can you can not spend all your day in meetings that you and sometimes it's your own head that you feel like I have to be there when in fact it would be just as good for one of your the people who report to you to go there and if there's something important, they'll come and tell you about it. So that's an example of looking at your calendar. Other times we have mental rules for ourselves. I'll tell a quick story. I had a client wonderful woman, very senior executive who if you emailed her, you could be certain that you would always get a response within 5 minutes.

Adrienne Garland: [26:30] Wow.

Gail Golden: [26:31] Unbelievable. Attorney Great. Except that her rule that she had to always respond immediately was making her a less effective leader.

Adrienne Garland: [26:45] Yeah.

Gail Golden: [26:46] Because she would sit in meetings answering email instead of paying attention to what was going on in the meeting. And she was teaching her team that they could expect her to be instantly responsive even about trivial matters. So, we worked on curating her life together for a while. And I began to notice that when I emailed her, I didn't get a response right away.

Adrienne Garland: [27:26] Nice.

Gail Golden: [27:27] In fact, sometimes I even had to ping her a second time. And you know what? That was good enough.

Adrienne Garland: [27:37] Right?

Gail Golden: [27:38] You know, that was good enough. So, it was not that she stopped answering her email altogether. But she came much became she curated which emails can I totally ignore which ones can wait 24 hours and which ones do I have to respond to right now instead of having one rule for everything.

Adrienne Garland: [28:02] You know I think it's really funny that example is like you hit on a nerve with me. I worked at PR Newswire in 2006ish. Gosh, I can't even remember back, but I had a very senior level role at PR Newswire and the person that was there before me did not respond immediately or even in a timely manner to emails. So, one of the requirements of my job, you know, and it was sort of laid out for me is that this role that I was in needed to be responsive. and Adrian can't just, you know, can't just be in the middle of the road with with those things. I have to go all out. So when when my boss said to me, you must be responsive to inquiries, I took that to the nth degree and did the exact same thing that the this example that you just brought up. I responded immediately.

Adrienne Garland: [29:16] It was it it almost was like a a I don't know. It was a a response like, "Well, I'm not going to be like that other person. I am going to do a better job and so you're all going to recognize that I'm, you know, I'm doing a better job." But it that behavior persists in me to this day. And and even when I don't respond immediately to people, it gives me awful anxiety. And with the amount of of emails that just come through. I spend so much of my time just going through because I don't want to be unresponsive to people because it's almost like a it at this point it's almost a value like people people want to be responded to. They're reaching out to you for a certain reason, you know, unless it's a newsletter or something. And and it is a trauma response. And I I think that as you as you sort of grow through your career, your profession, your business, the more measured that you can be in responding to anything at all signals power.

Gail Golden: [30:35] I absolutely I think that is a very very good sense. The more measured you can be in your response, more more tailored, more differentiating and frankly emotionally more measured as well. Yes. Signals I think that is absolutely right. If I am a servant and the bell rings, I have to respond right away.

Adrienne Garland: [31:07] Yes.

Gail Golden: [31:08] I worked as a waitress for a while. I was a very good waitress. I learned the rules. Believe me, my tables were very happy and I made good money.

Adrienne Garland: [31:26] But I I'm not a waitress anymore.

Gail Golden: [31:28] And you are not a waitress anymore. And the people on this podcast are not waitresses. And we need to be thinking about how do powerful people behave and that doesn't mean inconsiderate or arrogant. On the contrary, you know, I I thought about as you were talking a couple of things. One was it's important to think about what am I being measured on and that's both by myself. How am I measuring how well I'm doing? And if my measurement is I respond to every email within five minutes and that really matters to me, then you probably should keep doing it. But recognize that there's a cost to it. But if if that's what matters to you, it's kind of like to me, I mean, one of the things I measure myself on is do I look good today? And I pay time on my hair and my my that matters to me. I mean.

Adrienne Garland: [32:31] Yes.

Gail Golden: [32:32] Probably in, you know, in the in the great big world, whether Gail Golden has the right jacket on today doesn't really matter, but it matters to me. Do you know what I mean? So, okay. What matters to me? And then what matters to the people who are my family members, my boss, my my whoever your your people what are they going to measure you on and and paying attention to that I think that's number number one the other is almost all of us carry rules in our head that we're not even aware of some of them come from when we were little children you know and and our mother or father or teacher taught us something of those rules are really useful like say please and thank you but but others are not they are they are rigid and and as little children we take them in as black and white. This is the way it has to be. And being able as adults to spend some time thinking, gee, why am I getting so frantic about this? It doesn't seem like it's that important. Oh my gosh, this reminds me of the time my second grade teacher humiliated me in front of the class. You know what I mean? And there you go. So, what you did in terms of saying, "You know what? I'm still trying to please that boss I don't even work for anymore".

Adrienne Garland: [33:51] I know, right? Maybe I could let go of this now.

Gail Golden: [33:58] It's liberating, right?

Adrienne Garland: [34:00] Yes, it really is. And I I think having conversations like this, you know, you might not even be aware of some of these behaviors that are are actually holding you back from achieving that next level. So, as a as someone who's who's growing and expanding through her business, it's it's almost like she has to have a mindset change. the mind that is the one that needs to change cannot change on its own because it's it's it's sort of like I guess you're trapped in your own thinking. So what are some of the ways that people can almost it's almost like brain dump like get out of your mind? Maybe it is having conversations like that. What do you like this? What do you think is a really great strategy to help people uncover even this little epiphany like we just had?

Gail Golden: [34:55] Right. Right. Right. Well, two things come to mind. One is look for people who are doing it right.

Adrienne Garland: [35:05] Good.

Gail Golden: [35:06] Now, here's the major caution though. One of the biggest mistakes we make is we compare our insights to other people's outsides, right? And and you know, Gail Golden looks as if she's got it all together. She's got all the answers. She's got three wonderful grown-up sons and a long happy marriage. You know, she's got it all perfect. Uhhuh. That's the outside, right? And inside all kinds of anxieties and self-doubt and and negative feelings about myself, all sorts of things which I don't show to the world. So don't compare your insights to other people's outsides. But having said that, if you can look at Gail Golden or at Adrian or at other people that look to you as if they they they're accomplishing what you want to accomplish, what are they doing? How what that could I take and draw into my own life I think is is one way the other way quite honestly though towards uncovering what what are my barriers how am I getting in my own way?

Adrienne Garland: [36:20] Yeah.

Gail Golden: [36:21] Sometimes you can find that on your own and sometimes you do need to have a conversation.

Adrienne Garland: [36:28] Yeah.

Gail Golden: [36:29] And if it's a really deep seated trauma related or something you need to have a conversation with a therapist. If it's if it's more about strategizing about how can I be the best leader I want I can be and want to be. A conversation with a coach can be very helpful. Good coaches are not going to dig into your childhood trauma. That's not what we're here to. But we are here to help you identify, huh? You know, every time you talk about that, you start sucking your thumb. Let's talk about what that's about. I made that up, but you know what I mean? Just where are where are those places where the voice in our head is not being helpful to us? And And I call there's that that negative voice that tells you what an idiot you are. I call that the obnoxious roommate.

Adrienne Garland: [37:34] Yes.

Gail Golden: [37:35] And and we have to learn how to deal with the obnoxious room and coaching can help with that.

Adrienne Garland: [37:41] Can I just ask you one question about coaching almost as a as a wrap up because there definitely is I think a lot of benefit to finding a coach who also has a therapy background. at at the very least because of something you just said they I believe that as an executive coach helping you know our audience women entrepreneurs it it's great and coaching is is amazing. I think there's another layer there that is super helpful because as a therapist there are certain maybe patterns of speech or phrases that you say that reveal feel something deeper. And not that that coach has got to be your therapist.

Adrienne Garland: [38:39] But that coach SL therapist can recommend that you perhaps dive into that area deeper that it would help the person.

Gail Golden: [38:46] Yes. Well, Adrian, you're preaching to the choir here. So, I would say first of all, coaching is a completely unregulated profession, right? And one of your listeners could decide tomorrow that she's a coach, make a business card that says coach on it, go out and start selling her coaching services, whether she knows anything about coaching people or not. And there are a lot of people out there to be very candid and I hope I don't offend people in your audience. I will tell you the the term life coach bothers me a lot because I think life coaches are often people who want to be therapists and don't have the training.

Adrienne Garland: [39:41] Yeah. So I had to watch out for that term. I'm not a life coach. I'm an executive coach. I'm a leadership coach and and I so so yes I think for a coaching coach to be really valuable there have to be three things.

Gail Golden: [39:56] One is they have to know a whole bunch about psychology whether through life experience or academic training. They need to understand partly so they know when this is not a coaching issue and it's time to refer to a doctor or to a a therapist which I've done many. times. Second, they need to know a whole bunch about business. And when I became not somebody who's a psychologist and has never run a business, you know, why how can they help you? When I decided to make the shift into coaching, I went back to school and spent two years full-time in school getting an MBA because I knew I needed that business back. So, you coaching psychology and business. And then the third thing that's so important is that chemistry piece.

Adrienne Garland: [40:53] Yes.

Gail Golden: [40:54] When you talk to a coach for the first time, you should walk away with the feeling of I trust this person and he or she can help me.

Adrienne Garland: [41:10] Yeah. And they're they're for you as opposed to trying to put their agenda on you. Because I've definitely run into that type of an issue as well where a coach wants to somehow see themselves through you and they take you down their rosy path that ain't so rosy for you.

Gail Golden: [41:27] For you. Exactly. I The other thing I'll mention specifically about that is sometimes the coach is hired by the company.

Adrienne Garland: [41:40] Right? And the company has an agenda for what the coaching is supposed to do. I face that situation too.

Gail Golden: [41:50] So, and sometimes the person who's being coached is in trouble.

Adrienne Garland: [41:54] Yep.

Gail Golden: [41:55] And the coach is supposed to help that person get out of trouble, right? Sometimes those are hopeless. The company has already decided to get rid of the person and they're just checking the box, which is obnoxious for both the coach and the coaching. But sometimes I'm just coaching for him help. But even in that situation, if I cannot truly be on my client's side, that it is in my client's best interest to address a problematic behavior or grow in a particular area. This is simply something that the company is wanting, but it is not in the best interest of the client. Then I am useless as a coach. I can't help that person.

Adrienne Garland: [42:51] That's a that's a saying no to to a situation that does not serve your beautifully curated gallery of of Gail Golden Life.

Gail Golden: [42:59] That's right. So, so in early meetings, I'll be very candid with people about, you know, who's how who's my client and what what the agenda is and and you know that I am on their side and and almost always that works out well. I've had one or two where client never did trust me and guess what? I wasn't ble to help them and and good for them. If you don't trust me, then why the heck should you listen to what I have to say, right?

Adrienne Garland: [43:40] I love this, Gail. And I just appreciate I feel like I could talk to you forever. There are so many different avenues to go down. You have so much experience in in corporate and helping women entrepreneurs and women leaders and helping us to really achieve those levels that that we want to achieve for our our life. And so I feel so grateful to know you and to just be in your circle. I'm so happy that you spoke at the She Leads Live Los Angeles conference. I am really happy that you're here today as a guest. How can people get to know you, reach out to you, learn more from you?

Gail Golden: [44:33] Okay. Well, I have a website that has all kinds of stuff on it that I have said and done. So you can take a look at that. I did a TEDx talk on curating your life. So if you Google Gail Golden from Tedex, you'll get the talk. I wrote a book called Curating Your Life, which is available on, it's not available in bookstores, but it's online at Amazon and some other websites. And that contains a lot of what we've talked about. Anybody who would like to, you are welcome to email me and I will I will always have a first conversation with people with no obligation. Just let's spend an hour together and just talk. And then if you decide you want to work with me, we can figure out how to make that. up. So, please to get in touch. Yeah, I think my my email is fairly easy to find, but if you've got a pen handy, G golden gale golden consulting. Gail is g a I l golden atgale golden consulting.com and I'd be very happy to speak with you.

Adrienne Garland: [45:51] Thank you so much. And we'll put all of that in the show notes so everybody knows exactly how to get in touch with you. And I just want to say thank you so much for spending so much time with me here today and sharing all of your wisdom. I can't to actually put some of this into practice and visualize what are my magnificent pieces so that I can curate the the next step in in my life. So, thank you so much, Gail.

Gail Golden: [46:27] Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Adrienne Garland: [46:30] If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you think differently, please take a moment to leave a five-star rating and review. It's not just about boosting the show. It's about amplifying the voices of women entrepreneurs who are leading with vision, building with purpose, and shaping what's next. We need more of these conversations in the world right now, don't you think? And if someone came to mind while you were listening, someone who matters to you, send this episode to them. If there's something on your mind about leadership, legacy, or what's next, I want to hear it. Head to sheleadsia.com/voice and leave a voice memo. or note, your insight might just help shape a future episode. Make sure to follow the show and come back next week for more conversations you won't hear anywhere else. Thank you so much for listening. Hi everybody and welcome back to the She Leads podcast. I am so excited to welcome my next podcast network. Her name is Gail Golden and she provides strategic coaching to reveal what's really going on.