Radical Self-Acceptance: Redefining the Foundation of Success with Nathalie Botros

Adrienne Garland (00:00:00)

Leadership isn't just changing. It's evolving in ways we're only just beginning to imagine. And women, we're not playing this game anymore. We're the ones reshaping the entire field, building models, movements, and businesses that serve more than just a few.

On the She Leads podcast, you'll hear real conversations with women who've broken through all kinds of barriers—revenue, identity, borders, and expectations. There's no sugar coating here, just the truth told by those who are living it.

I'm Adrienne Garland, entrepreneur, strategist, educator, and creator of live experiences, gathering women leaders together for over a decade. And this is the She Leads podcast.

Hi everybody and welcome back to the She Leads podcast. I am so, so excited to introduce you to my next guest. Her name is Nathalie Botros and she's the Bon Vivant Girl. She's known worldwide as the happiness activator.

And she's also an author, a speaker, and a psychotherapist who now works as a mindset architect and happiness coach. She also serves as the executive editor of Ageless Living magazine where she curates stories that celebrate unapologetic and joyful living at any age.

Nathalie is the international best-selling author of The Happiness Cocktail and the creator of The Relationship Code, a program that helps people shift from survival to thriving. I love that so much.

Her work has been featured on NBC TV, Ticker News, Authority Magazine, and Thrive Global. And her mission is simple. Reset how you live, love, and lead so you can wake up each day with a smile.

And I'm so happy and I have a big smile on my face because I cannot wait to talk to you. I have had the absolute privilege of meeting you in person, which doesn't always happen with the guests on the She Leads podcast.

And gosh, I am so inspired by you. I know that all the women that attended the She Leads Live conference were so inspired by you. Everybody said that you have the most beautiful energy, and I wanted you to know that here. So, I know that that's going to come through on our conversation today. So, welcome to the She Leads podcast.

Nathalie Botros (00:02:18)

Yeah, thank you. I'm so excited. We made it. We really made it.

Adrienne Garland (00:02:22)

We really made it.

Nathalie Botros (00:02:24)

And I love the She Leads Media. The whole conference was so interesting. I learned stuff. I connected with amazing women.

And what I loved—it was like that connection between everyone, you know, that support and it was just beautiful. Oh, thank you so much. Great job to put all these amazing women in one room.

Adrienne Garland (00:02:46)

I know. And it really does take a village, right? So, it's like different people introduce me to different people and that's how things grow and I think that's what women do so well. And it truly was a beautiful experience.

The VIP evening we just have to talk about. It was—oh gosh, those views of the Brooklyn Bridge. My goodness. Wow.

Nathalie Botros (00:03:10)

It was just incredible. I mean, the location was like breathtaking, but the conversation was very, very inspiring as well. I mean, like everything was great. There are no bad comments about it.

But we need to have even more people, more women attending all these to see how it's great because it's not like every other, you know, networking event. It's more supportive than networking. It's like it has that love behind it. Everybody was like, how can I help you?

Nathalie Botros (00:03:52)

And not what can I get from you, which is very important.

Adrienne Garland (00:03:59)

Oh gosh, that makes me so happy to hear. And I also just want to say—I was going to do this later but you also contributed these beautiful cards to the gift bags.

Adrienne Garland (00:04:10)

And one of the things that I read on the back of this that I didn't read in the intro is that you're also the author of another book which I just laughed out loud at. I have to get my hands on this and I just want to say that it's called If You Are What You Eat, Should I Eat a Skinny Girl?

I was dying when I saw that. That is so, so funny.

And you know, I also thought I'm going to do something a little different. I don't do this on podcast, but because I have your cards here, I was thinking I'm going to shuffle them up and maybe I'm going to ask a question from your cards and I'm going to ask you to sort of relate that to how you started on your journey. Okay?

So, shuffle shuffle with intention and I'm going to pick a card. Okay. I was going to just choose a different one, but I'm going to choose this one. This is beautiful. This is a beautiful blue card here. And these cards are so gorgeous. They're happiness tips.

And at the end, we can put in the show notes how to get your hands on these cards.

But this card is interesting. It's called Get Over a Bad Day. So, a bad day doesn't mean a bad life. It's important to recognize that bad days are temporary and they shouldn't affect your whole life. Even when you hit a rough patch, focus on the good things in your life. This will help you see the positive angle and make you feel better.

So, Nathalie, what does this card mean to you and how does this reflect your journey?

Nathalie Botros (00:05:40)

Well, that's a very loaded question. First of all, I don't know if you know that, but they made some research about how the happiness comes and how like the origins of our happiness.

And we always believe that it comes from the external factors. I say the external factors because like for me they're like those things.

But actually 50% of our happiness comes from our genetics and only 10% of our happiness comes from those external factors and all the rest—all those 40%—it's from intentional activities.

Nathalie Botros (00:06:21)

And I used to—I mean, in my family, okay, I'm the happiest one, but genetically I don't know if I'm predisposed to be happy. But you can fight it with like choosing how to see life.

And I spent my life—well, beginning of my life—fighting that because on paper I had it all but there was still something missing. And like everything could put me down and I was like, no, I cannot let this happen.

And it's why a bad day doesn't mean a bad life. So I will work on them and try to find the positive, the happy, the silver lining in everything. And it's really what it is about and what my journey is about too.

Adrienne Garland (00:07:04)

So take us back to maybe the beginning. How did you sort of start out on this road?

And now you find yourself—you've always been a writer, but now you also find yourself as one of the editors for Ageless Living magazine, which is such a beautiful magazine, and I would love for you to talk about that, too.

But how did you sort of get to the point where you are now? Take us back to the beginning.

Nathalie Botros (00:07:31)

So, I'm a psychotherapist. I have a master's degree and all that—all the things that you need for that. But when I finished my studies, I was too young and nobody wanted to hire me.

So I started working in different fields while I was in Switzerland. And I was working at a bank. I did so many things. I have so many different lives.

But my thing was always chasing happiness. So I used to live in Switzerland, Geneva, and at a bank, getting an amazing salary, great apartment, beautiful partner—like I had it all, but something was missing in my life.

And I was like, I'm not happy. So, one day I decided I went and I talked to my boss. I said, I'm leaving. He goes, where are you going? I said, no idea. I have to discover myself.

Adrienne Garland (00:08:29)

Wow.

Nathalie Botros (00:08:30)

Which led me to my life in Italy, in Milan. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to take a year off to discover myself.

But while I was there, I was like, huh? I'm in Italy in fashion. Maybe I should do fashion. So, I became a fashion designer.

And I spent—I mean, I spent three years in Milan eating as much pasta as I want, dating all the cute Italian boys.

But again, like I was happy for a minute, but there was still something missing in my life. I said maybe I need a bigger move. So maybe I should cross the Atlantic. And it's where I landed in New York 25 plus years ago.

And in New York I was like, okay, this is the most exciting. I have to be happy and fulfilled. Not happy but really fulfilled because I couldn't know what it was.

Of course, you come to the US—all these deliveries, all this plus ones and this and that—in less than a year I gained more than 40 pounds.

Nathalie Botros (00:09:37)

Now I was really unhappy, not enjoying life and hating myself and my body.

And I tried—like all us women—every single diet there is on this earth. Every single of them. Like I'm not exaggerating. I was like injecting myself with pregnancy hormones. It's the HCG diet. Yes. I did everything. Everything, everything.

And it was like—it—I was losing more joy, more money, and not any weight. Because like all the diets will start at the beginning and then you will gain back everything.

Nathalie Botros (00:10:29)

Until one day I'm sitting in front of my TV, you know, trying the latest little black dress diet. And I saw this show. I don't know who's the host—Carson. It's like Love Yourself Naked.

And they take these women of different sizes and they help them to love themselves. They help them to get dressed. They help them, you know, like they give them confidence.

And the last scene of the show is they do a naked photo shoot and they put it up in Times Square.

Adrienne Garland (00:11:03)

What?

Nathalie Botros (00:11:04)

And people walking by make all the great comments because their aura changed. Yeah. And I said, maybe this is it.

So I didn't put myself naked in Times Square, let's be honest. But I changed my mindset and I stood naked in front of the mirror every single morning trying to find something that I like about my body and myself.

Because obviously when you don't love your body, you don't love yourself too. You lose your confidence. You lose everything.

Yeah. And it was really hard at the beginning, I have to say. Because I wouldn't see anything. I was like, this is horrible.

But with time I was like, oh wait, you know, oh, the shoulder—not bad. Or this. And you're going to laugh, but my energy changed and my life changed.

And actually, I still didn't lose any weight. That was not the point. But people would say like, did you lose weight? You look good.

Nathalie Botros (00:12:12)

And with time, over the years, I lost weight, I gained weight, I did. But I've never heard from anyone saying you're fat or you're skinny or you're this or you're that.

It's why I wrote that book actually, which is If You Are What You Eat, Should I Eat a Skinny Girl?

And actually, it looks like a diet book, but it's a self-love book. Because the first rule is to love and accept yourself unapologetically. Every single piece of your body and your soul and yourself.

And that's where you become really happy. Because if you don't love yourself, you won't know how to love. You don't know how to lead. Because if you don't love yourself, you don't have any confidence. It's really the base of every single thing in life.

Nathalie Botros (00:12:59)

And so at the beginning, when I did that book, I lost weight. And then I gained back afterwards, but I lost weight.

People were like, you have to give us your diet. I'm like, it's not a diet. It's a lifestyle.

It's really—I mean, I prefer to eat a slice of pizza instead of eating three carrots and smile about it. And it will make me feel, you know, my happy food that will make me feel good.

So, it's why I wrote that book to help people to just enjoy life. And that led to the Bon Vivant Girl. And bon vivant in French means someone who lives well. If translated literally. It's really someone who enjoys life.

Nathalie Botros (00:13:46)

And it's who I am.

Adrienne Garland (00:13:48)

Yeah. And that really does shine through you. You can definitely tell you're somebody who is living a beautiful and joyful life in the way that you interact with people.

You were on our Pitch the Media panel and you gave such beautiful advice to people on, you know, what you need to do in order to put yourself out there in front of the media.

And it's so true. It—like everything starts with you, right? And if you have any self-loathing at all, that permeates every single aspect of your life.

And it's so funny as you're talking, I'm, you know, always trying to make all the connections. And while, you know, while maybe initially it was about, you know, love my body, it's almost bigger than that. It's love myself.

Nathalie Botros (00:14:42)

Yes. It's love your body, self. And it's why actually—it was at the beginning really like loving your body, but I grew and my message grew too.

It's why I have my book, The Happiness Cocktail, where I give five ingredients and the first one is self-love. It's love, but actually self-love.

And in my coaching program, The Relationship Code, it's resetting the three main relationships in your life and the first one is again love.

I filmed a documentary and my pillar is relationships—the relationship with yourself. Because it's really the base of everything and it links to everything.

Even with Ageless Living magazine, it's like living unapologetically at any age but loving yourself.

Nathalie Botros (00:15:37)

Yeah. You can love yourself while doing things to get better, look better. But you have to love yourself. You should do all this for yourself, not for the others.

Adrienne Garland (00:15:52)

Yeah. That's a very challenging concept even though it shouldn't be. It is a very challenging concept I think especially for women when we've sort of been conditioned our whole lives to be doing things for other people.

It almost disconnects us from ourselves. And then that's where, you know, comparing our lives, our jobs, our businesses, ourselves, our bodies, our hair to everybody else—it—we separate from ourselves.

So, it's almost like, you know, I think so much about the way that you just kind of took a look at yourself, you know, yes, okay, naked, but almost—that's not the point.

The point is really taking a look at yourself and recognizing that, you know, maybe you're not perfect, whatever perfect is, but there's everything to love about you outside and inside.

And I think more—maybe humans need to do this because the world today is so divided. And there's not a lot of outward love that people are showing for one another. And it's probably because there's not a lot of love that they're showing to themselves.

Nathalie Botros (00:17:09)

Exactly. And also, you know, we have this misconception. And that's ridiculous because I have like some model clients who complain about their body because they think that they're too skinny or that they have something missing.

It's like—so and then like if we follow this logic, every skinny person is happy. No. It's like—or like every person who has—we see like even those celebrities, those people who have everything that I'm going to say common—but like other people dream of—they're unhappy.

It doesn't mean like what you have or what you get—it's not what's going to bring you to happiness.

Nathalie Botros (00:17:51)

What's going to bring you to happiness is to love yourself the way you are.

And you were talking about perfection. Perfect doesn't exist. But we are all perfect in our own way and that's what makes us unique. And that's what we should celebrate instead of comparing ourselves to others.

And maybe my success in some fields is better than some other people or maybe my success in some things I can work on.

But instead of putting myself down, I'll say, okay, that's a nice challenge that I can give myself—but for myself. Not because I want to be them or I want to be at their level. Everybody has their own journey.

Nathalie Botros (00:18:41)

And us as women, we have this issue. We always compare ourselves. We always try to prove something. What are you proving? You're amazing.

Adrienne Garland (00:18:52)

Yeah, I know. I mean, I definitely suffer from trying to, you know, prove something.

And, you know, along the way, as you get older and everything, you start to question like, wait a minute, what am I doing? Like, who am I trying to prove this to?

Because the person that I was maybe trying to prove it to was 20 years ago. They're not even thinking about me, right? So like what am I doing? I'm living my life to change someone's mind about me, you know, why do I care?

And that's something that I have definitely been thinking about a lot lately.

And in some ways—and I don't know if anybody else that's listening can resonate. This resonates with them. But it's almost like it gives me a purpose to think like, oh, you know, let me prove to you that I can do it, whatever that means, right?

But without that, without the let me prove it to you, I'm kind of lost, right? So.

Nathalie Botros (00:20:00)

Why do you feel lost without the "I have to prove it"? It's your drive.

Adrienne Garland (00:20:07)

I think it's like a drive. It's a competitive nature, probably the way that I, you know, was raised and conditioned and everything knowingly or unknowingly.

And it's funny because now I, you know, at this stage of my life, I really don't feel like I need to prove anything to anyone.

And it's exciting and it's also scary because when you push against something, it's almost like there's some leverage there that can get you moving. But if there's nothing to push against, you know, it's sort of like, okay, how do I approach this?

And that's exciting, but it's also—I don't think I know how to do it.

Nathalie Botros (00:20:53)

Well, with small steps. Yeah, with small steps.

But the thing is, I think the issue that we all have—we always focus on the end goal instead of focusing on the small steps getting there and celebrating every single step.

Instead of saying, oh, I didn't get what I want—like I wanted, I don't know, let's say anything like, you know, at the end of the road I want to make one million by the end of this year. I didn't do it.

Maybe you should start celebrating. Oh, this month I had three new clients. Or this month my message was spread to more people. I impacted more people.

So taking step by step and celebrating everything and not focusing on the end goal. The end goal will happen because I believe that we can make happen anything we want.

Adrienne Garland (00:21:49)

Hey everyone. So for years I've been working with Dr. Kent and sending people in my network his way. He does so much impact work. What do I mean by that?

Well, he helps people create books and podcasts and things like that. He even helps with this podcast behind the scenes. Dr. Kent is my thought partner.

Anyone listening knows that we all need to do what we can to get our thoughts, opinions, and voices out into the world and how important it is for women to invest in other women and for women to hire other women. I am all about that and you all know that.

But in this case, I think Dr. Kent is an exception. He's doing something really different via this new program that he's launched called the Genius Discovery Program.

So, he wants to work with people like me and like you who are impact driven. Dr. Kent has an intensive program that goes for a month. He also has a three-month program where he figures out where you're headed with your brand, your business, your speaking, and your signature story as a thought leader.

I've known Dr. Kent for a long time. So, believe me when I say that he has a ton of experience working with people that are looking to make an impact, but might not know exactly how to approach them.

So, if you're interested in talking to him, you can go directly to talktokent.com or you can send me a DM on Instagram at sheleadsmedia or just shoot me an email over at hello@sheleadsmedia.com.

Adrienne Garland (00:23:43)

This is so important. It just keeps going back to taking a look at yourself.

So like the goal, you know, whatever the goal is to look a certain way, but it's accepting who you are in the mirror in the moment.

Same thing goes for your business or your career. While you might not be the perfect version of your business or professional self, exactly what you said, there are things that you need to look at and point out and say, but wait a minute, that, you know, that shoulder's good, right? Or like,

Nathalie Botros (00:24:22)

Exactly.

Adrienne Garland (00:24:23)

Yeah. I, you know, I put on a beautiful conference or, you know, these people that connected with each other are now approaching a new strategic partnership.

Like those are all still wins. They might not be exactly what, you know, me or whoever else is listening—might not be exactly what you envisioned, but yet it's still toward that—let's love where we are and then if we want to improve it, okay, make a conscious choice to do that.

Otherwise, because it might not even be important the things that we think are important.

Nathalie Botros (00:25:01)

Exactly. That's the other thing too. It's like maybe you think that being successful in your business is going to make you, you know, the one that you want to be. But maybe not.

Maybe while doing that you're going to take time from other things that really make you smile. And that's important.

And another thing too—it's about comparing. We always, always, always compare ourselves. But be aware. What you see online, what you see out there, it's not reality.

Nathalie Botros (00:25:34)

So don't think that they have it all. Yeah. Those people who show that everything is perfect. Trust me, everything is not perfect. No. Because perfect doesn't exist, as we say. And we're all humans, so everything cannot be perfect.

But the trick is to find the balance with everything imperfect and great and, you know, have a smooth ride and happiness rides along the way.

Adrienne Garland (00:26:07)

So, on this podcast, I've sort of shifted focus a little bit over the past I would say three to six months.

And my focus has shifted toward women who are, you know, they're entrepreneurs, they're leaders, and in their businesses, they are looking to get past the million-dollar mark in their business.

And it's not so much because, you know, a million dollars equates to success, but rather if they can get to a million dollars in revenue, oftentimes that means that there's profit for them to actually make some type of a larger impact in however it is that they want to.

Women's businesses not getting past the million-dollar mark forces us into this state of survival where, you know, yes, maybe we are paying our bills and, you know, maybe we have a little bit more control over our schedule and all of that. And that is amazing. Absolutely amazing.

But until women get past that million-dollar mark in their business, so many things don't happen for us. We don't get access to financing. We don't get taken as seriously when it comes to our businesses.

And I know that for many, that is also a little bit of a source of frustration, right? Like I'm working so hard. I'm doing so much. I'm serving so many people. I'm really making an impact, but my profit, my revenue is not showing that.

And it definitely is a goal of mine, a mission of mine, if you will, to educate women on what they need to do to get past that million-dollar mark so that we can really start making an impact in the way that I feel like we only know how. We're amazing, you know, women are amazing.

Nathalie Botros (00:27:54)

Yeah.

Adrienne Garland (00:27:56)

So, I guess I'm just asking, you know, you talk to so many people all at different stages along their journeys and it's not about how much money they have in their bank. That doesn't equate to happiness.

But what are some of the things that you see women especially doing that sets them up for this kind of success where they do have the mindset to grow their business past a million dollars because there's something bigger there?

Nathalie Botros (00:28:28)

I think they have to choose wisely how they invest their time and money while getting there. Because there are so many shiny things out there.

I mean, I'm sure you have that too. Every day I receive these proposals. We're going to put you top this, top that, and this and that.

And some women unfortunately—and it's more women than men—

Nathalie Botros (00:28:51)

I see with my clients, they're like, oh, it's shiny. Let me go and grab it. And I used to do that, too.

And then there comes a point where you have to be careful how you're putting yourself out there. And your message has to be clear and your objective has to be clear.

So you have to be out there. You have to say, this is first your target audience. Who are you talking to? Are you talking to busy moms? Are you talking to entrepreneurs? Are you talking to, I don't know, pet lovers?

Make as specific as you can the audience you're targeting. Your avatar. It's the most important. And then work toward that.

Nathalie Botros (00:29:34)

You cannot serve everyone. And I see with my clients—and I used to be like that too. So I learned from my own experience too.

I wanted to help everyone. I was like, no, but I mean, I want to help these people too. These people too.

And especially happiness, you know, it's so general that you want to spread the smiles to everyone. You cannot. You have to really focus and see who you can serve.

And another very important thing—it's not about you. It's about what you can offer. To get to success, you should not think, I want to. It's like, how can I help you?

Adrienne Garland (00:30:20)

Yeah.

Nathalie Botros (00:30:21)

And that—people respond. And be authentic. Don't copy a famous person's journey or business work. Create your own. Be authentic. Authenticity, especially today, sells more than copycats.

Adrienne Garland (00:30:37)

Yeah. And it goes back to—the only way for you to be authentic is to recognize that you are valuable exactly how you are. Exactly. Love yourself. Like, even business goes back to love yourself.

Nathalie Botros (00:30:57)

I mean, you have to love. Because when you love yourself, you gain this confidence, this trust in yourself.

How can you be a leader if you don't know how to lead yourself with love?

It shows you how to be, how to react, how to work, how to lead. It's really the base of everything. And it starts with you.

And you don't need a special course. You don't need those books. We all read—like we all read all those books—did—like, you know, it's not all those gratitude moments—all—no.

All this is great. It can help. But that's not going to change. The only thing that can change is your mindset shift that you are amazing.

Nathalie Botros (00:31:38)

Fake it until you believe it.

Adrienne Garland (00:31:41)

Yes. Practice it until you—what is it? Practice it until you make progress with it or something like that?

Nathalie Botros (00:31:49)

Exactly. It's, you know, like imagine yourself that you're already there and act as a leader but from love. Not from jealousy, from, you know, competition.

Do whatever you want to do. And actually, at She Leads Media, I met some amazing women who were doing what they loved. And we can see that it wasn't just for profit. It was because it was their passion.

Adrienne Garland (00:32:15)

Yeah. And I think that's the thing that women need to figure out. Because we do have so much passion. We have so much to give. We're so creative. We are so willing to help other people.

And it's sort of figuring out how do we also profit from that so we can continue with that good work. Because gosh, so many people I meet are just so incredible. They're incredible.

Nathalie Botros (00:32:41)

But there's one thing that you said which is very important. Be careful—set boundaries.

Because saying yes to everything might be nos for yourself, for your self-growth, and for your business.

So saying yes to everything—it doesn't mean you're successful. You can get hundreds of offers, hundreds of this and that. You should say no.

Or like people can ask you stuff. Us women were created to help. So we want to help.

But there are some moments where you have to know your limits. So in those moments, saying no, it's not a bad thing. It's protecting yourself. And you should know to find that little, you know, line when you have to say no.

Adrienne Garland (00:33:28)

So, how can saying no be done with grace and joy? Because sometimes people that are on the receiving end of that have judgment against you and they're not afraid to, you know, let you know that you have just disappointed them or let them down or, you know, they're angry at you in some way.

So, how might you—and I would love to ask you for a couple of these tips—like how might you—

Nathalie Botros (00:33:57)

I mean, give me a specific example, for example, so it's easier to put it.

Adrienne Garland (00:34:07)

You know, I don't know if I'm the only person, but so many people—and I also am very guilty of wanting to help people because I actually love it.

It's almost like a puzzle or something to me. When people ask me, you know, can you help me think about this? It flips the switch for me like, yeah, let's talk about it, you know, almost like back in high school where it's like, oh my god, tell me what happened, you know?

Adrienne Garland (00:34:41)

So, I think that's really where it comes from.

But when people ask me for my help, I want to just dive right in. And, you know, I also recognize oftentimes like halfway through the conversation—wait a minute. This is really good advice. It's from a place that I have invested so much time into myself, so much money into my education and just training on everything.

And I'm sort of halfway through saying to myself, how did I just get into this lengthy conversation where I'm giving this incredible advice and the person on the other end is taking the advice very happily for free?

And I would like to at that point be able to sort of pull back from that conversation, but I know that if I do that, I'm going to—like it is almost offensive, or at least I think it is.

Nathalie Botros (00:35:40)

I think it's your own insecurities that—they think that you should tell them, you know.

Oh, that's a great question. Actually, I'm giving a class about it. Would you like me to send you the link?

So, you know, yes, cut it. But you have to spot the trigger. Because that's like—really, you have to catch that trigger. And then say, oh, you know what? I'm going to do—I don't know—I'm going to do a group Zoom meeting with this and that.

Well, like you can give some of the advice and then at the end—you want to learn more, buy my course or—

Nathalie Botros (00:36:25)

Hire me as your coach.

Some people are going to say no. Those people, they're like the freeloaders.

But the people who really want that—they will invest.

At the end of the day, that person asks you information because they want to sell a product, right?

Adrienne Garland (00:36:40)

Yeah.

Nathalie Botros (00:36:41)

Are they going to give you any profit from their product sales? No.

Adrienne Garland (00:36:46)

No.

Nathalie Botros (00:36:47)

So, they're okay to ask money from other people. Why shouldn't you ask them?

Adrienne Garland (00:36:52)

Yeah. It's so true.

Nathalie Botros (00:36:54)

Yeah. I mean, you don't have to say no, I'm not going to help you. You say, oh, actually, I was thinking about creating a thing. You know what? As soon as I set up—because sometimes we don't have that course or that thing ready—I can send you the link.

Nathalie Botros (00:37:11)

You say that.

Adrienne Garland (00:37:13)

Yeah. Yeah. I do find that there's a lot of outreach like, can I pick your brain? You know, I just need five minutes with you. I think a lot of people do that, not just to me, but to others.

And I think as women, we want to help, but then we realize—

Nathalie Botros (00:37:29)

Set boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries. Yes. Boundaries we have to set.

And then even when you send your Calendly, let's say, or your—ask the questions. What is this meeting about? So you can learn about everything. So you can be ready before the meeting.

Nathalie Botros (00:37:57)

And I was going to say and I forgot. Yeah. When I started, I was always scared to ask for money from people. I think I told you that story. So I invented an assistant.

Adrienne Garland (00:38:15)

I love this. Can you tell that story, please?

Nathalie Botros (00:38:17)

So I didn't know how to ask money from people because—I mean, you're European, Middle East—in the US, you can ask for money straight away.

But in my culture, we cannot ask for money. It's like not proper. It's not good.

So I invented an assistant and I created an email account with my assistant. And I said, my assistant will get in touch. Or my assistant will say, okay, so this service will be this amount.

And it was perfect. It was really, really perfect. It helped me so much.

Adrienne Garland (00:38:52)

Yeah. And at what point—maybe you still have your assistant—at what point did you say, okay, I can now do this on my own? How many months?

Nathalie Botros (00:39:07)

Confidence. Because when you don't ask money, you devalue yourself.

And don't ask—and I think you have to ask the right amount. Don't do discounts left and right. No, you're valuable. Your insights are so valuable.

So know your value. And this all comes with confidence. And we go back to self-love and confidence. Yeah.

But the minute that you understand your value, you're not scared to ask about it.

I mean, with time it came. I was like, okay, this is this amount. And when they say, oh, but this is very expensive, or this and that, I said, well, how important is this information for you? Is it going to help you?

If it's not going to help you, I totally understand. Go and follow other courses for five dollars.

Because let's be honest, today we can find a lot of stuff on the net for free. But if you want my expertise, my advice, my insights, and to work with me—

Nathalie Botros (00:40:17)

This is what I'm worth.

Adrienne Garland (00:40:19)

Yes. I think so many women need to hear this because I know that I'm not the only one. Because I have a lot of conversations with people that, you know, we want to be bold and do exactly what you're saying and definitely struggle with it.

And I also think that maybe the message—and I definitely practice this—also, if you're the one that's on the other end of that where you're asking somebody for advice, recognize when you are taking too much.

Because I also feel like that happens too. That the other person who's asking is not self-aware and they're almost taking.

So, if you're the person that is speaking to someone else and you feel that gut feeling like, wait a minute, this is starting to get into professional advice territory—stop the conversation.

Be, you know, show some gratitude and empathy for that other person. Because that other person might be struggling with knowing their value in that moment. And they shouldn't be taken advantage of. Don't take advantage of anybody.

Nathalie Botros (00:41:31)

Exactly. And then if you know that you're asking a little too much, offer something. Say, I know that I'm asking. I'm picking your brain.

If you can give me this information, maybe I can give you this in exchange. So why not?

There is—be open. Being shy or not being open in the conversations is where it kind of creates tension. And the person who has been asked feels used. And it's not a good feeling.

Adrienne Garland (00:42:07)

No.

Nathalie Botros (00:42:07)

So respect your demands and, you know, respect the other person from whom you want all that information.

Adrienne Garland (00:42:18)

That is such a great message.

The other question I was going to ask you—because I do know that you work with so many people—some of the women that are at these higher levels, they're making the million dollars, they're the top of their profession—do you see that they struggle with happiness?

But maybe—what are some of the things that they are still struggling with even though they have achieved certain milestones that they set out to achieve? What are they thinking about next?

Nathalie Botros (00:42:57)

Well, the biggest issue that they have when they come to see me is they think they find the success, but while trying to get the success, they kind of hurt their personal relationships.

So they—the finding that work-life harmony. Not balance, because work-life balance doesn't exist in today's world as we have access to our phones, computers. Most people work remotely. It's like there are no limits.

And those people, they're so driven and they came up there, but to what cost?

Nathalie Botros (00:43:40)

And some of them lose the relationship with their partners, lose the relationship with their kids. I mean, for me, I see a lot of that.

And the good news is that you can have it all.

Adrienne Garland (00:43:52)

Yeah.

Nathalie Botros (00:43:52)

Just you have to find, you know, like a symphony, like the right music, the right instruments, when you have to do—and you have to attend to all your relationships.

And this is really the biggest issue they have. Because okay, they have the money. But if you have no one to enjoy the money with, or you don't have any minute for yourself—leave a partner—you don't have time. If you don't have time, why are you making all this money?

Adrienne Garland (00:44:20)

Yeah. What's the point?

Nathalie Botros (00:44:21)

Just to say—what's the point. So it's really where my Bon Vivant Girl—enjoying life woman—comes in.

And also it's finding that balance at home and outside. I mean, with work—that's harmony.

Adrienne Garland (00:44:38)

So beautiful. Can you talk a little bit about the Bon Vivant Girl and Ageless Living magazine and how those two things fit together?

Nathalie Botros (00:44:50)

So Ageless Living—I know the name sounds okay, is it a magazine for only people who want to look young? It has nothing to do with that.

It's ageless living. It's living fully at any age, whether you're 20, 30, 40, 70, 90.

Nathalie Botros (00:45:12)

And it's living boldly with joy and really unapologetically. It's my favorite word and I say it with my French accent. So it comes out differently.

But it's really that. And I am one of the editors because I have a different angle than the other editors in the magazine.

I'm someone who—as I wrote in the first one, you know, they say write a little bit about yourself—for me, every wrinkle is a happy moment.

So I don't do Botox. I don't do all those kind of stuff. Not because I'm a gangster—because I'm scared.

But on the other side, I wear them proudly. Because I'm proud of them. It's the life that I lived.

And I have a different approach to ageless living physically, let's say. But also, for me, ageless living is happily living.

So my view is different. And I love to bring women—like we interviewed you and you're going to have an amazing article. I saw it.

Nathalie Botros (00:46:21)

It's putting people, businesses, luxury brands—featuring them and sharing this information with everyone who have 2.6 million subscribers. To see, to read about you, to hear about you, to hear your story.

I don't talk about just business. I talk about the woman behind—all the time. Or the men behind, when we interview men.

So that's the part that I love. And how I became one of the editors.

So when I came to She Leads Media, I was on the media panel. Yes. But I was thinking that I could be in all of the other panels, you know.

Adrienne Garland (00:46:58)

Exactly. You definitely could have been and you definitely will be in the future.

Because Deb—we are certainly going to be doing things together because our missions are so aligned. And I just love that so much.

So, I could talk to you forever, which I think we have had such incredible conversations. I just can't wait for the next one, too.

Adrienne Garland (00:47:20)

But how can people get in touch with you, hire you, talk to you, and get to know you better?

Nathalie Botros (00:47:27)

So, they can go to my website. It's nathaliebotros.com or thebonvivantgirl.com.

But also on social media, on Instagram, I share every day at least one post of tips or tools to find your smile, to find the harmony in your life, to reset your relationships.

And message me, say that you heard me from this podcast, and I always answer. I'm not one of those people who don't answer.

Adrienne Garland (00:47:58)

Yes. And they can get your happiness cards deck on your website as well, or—

Nathalie Botros (00:48:07)

So my happiness cards—they're out of stock.

Adrienne Garland (00:48:09)

Oh, no.

Nathalie Botros (00:48:10)

But I have a few left. So, if you really want, call me.

But you can get my book, The Happiness Cocktail: The Ingredients to a Life of Happiness and Peace and Love and, you know, joy—on Amazon.

Adrienne Garland (00:48:30)

Oh, I love that.

And you know what? Here's what I'll do. So, anybody who is listening who would like a copy of that book, message me at She Leads Media. Take a picture or a screenshot of you listening to this podcast and I will purchase that book for you and send it to you as my holiday gift to you for listening to this episode of the She Leads podcast. So, thank you so much. Thank you.

Nathalie Botros (00:49:03)

And I'll send you a happiness card that I have in stock.

Adrienne Garland (00:49:06)

I love it. Okay, so an extra bonus there. That is so good. Oh, thank you so much. That will definitely put a smile on someone's face. I know that for sure.

So, thank you so much for spending time with me today. Happy holidays and I cannot wait for our next conversation.

If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you think differently, please take a moment to leave a five-star rating and review.

It's not just about boosting the show. It's about amplifying the voices of women entrepreneurs who are leading with vision, building with purpose, and shaping what's next.

We need more of these conversations in the world right now, don't you think?

And if someone came to mind while you were listening, someone who matters to you, send this episode to them.

If there's something on your mind about leadership, legacy, or what's next, I want to hear it. Head to sheleadsmedia.com/voice and leave a voice memo or note. Your insight might just help shape a future episode.

Make sure to follow the show and come back next week for more conversations you won't hear anywhere else.

Thank you so much for listening.