Powerful Conversations With Internationally Recognized Bestselling Author and Leader, Hira Ali

Adrienne Garland (0:06): Everyone. My name is Adrienne Garland, and welcome to Sugar Coated. Sugar Coated is a podcast that was born from the notion that for far too long, women and other people who inside felt like they just didn't fit in in maybe small or even large ways had to sugarcoat their words, their style, or in general, their way of showing up in the world. This podcast started out as a dedication to women leaders. You see, I wanted to shine the light on all the incredible work that women do and how they're making an impact, and I still do.

Adrienne Garland (0:45): But I realized that a key reason that women have struggled, in my opinion, is that they've had to conform to certain cultural norms and ideals, which are inherently designed to keep those outside of the norm from standing out. This has prevented more women from being recognized as the powerful leaders that we truly are. Join me, Adrian Garland, the CEO and founder of SheLeads Media each week as I dive into raw conversations with some remarkable badass women that will help you to strip away your sugar coat and go in the direction of your incredible dreams. Hi, everybody. This is Adrienne Garland, and welcome to sugarcoat it.

Adrienne Garland (1:33): I'm here today with an incredible guest, Hera Ali. Hera is a force. She is an author of the bestselling book, her way to the top. She's also a speaker, an executive coach, and a leadership executive. Here is the managing director of the International Women Empowerment Events where she puts on events for women all over the world.

Adrienne Garland (1:58): I'm so honored to be partnering with on an event that we are collaborating on that's coming up in July in Dubai. And those things rhyme. So I'm so excited to have this conversation with Hira, and I just wanna start with rolling it back a little bit and talking about how we met. I was invited to attend an international event. It was a trade mission, if you will.

Adrienne Garland (2:30): And it was for these things called the Win Trade Awards. And it was in The UK in 2018, I believe. And I met Hira at a high tea, at parliament. So without further ado, I would like to introduce Hira and just have her tell you a little bit about herself in your own words, and then we'll get into a really great conversation about, you know, women, impostor syndrome, and anything else that kinda comes up today. So introduce yourself, Hira.

Hera Ali (3:06): Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I am super excited to be here, Adrian. And, yeah, we have literally known each other for two years, but it seems as if we have known each other for ages.

Unknown Speaker (3:20): Yes.

Hera Ali (3:23): But, yeah, so a little about myself, we've already given a very nice and kind introduction about me. Yes, I am career coach, I'm a leadership trainer and I like to think, I don't say that I specialize in, but I always say, I do have a very keen passion in women leadership and ethnic minority leadership. Other than that, I'm the founder of the company called Advancing Your Potential, which provides trainings and consulting services and coaching to women and ethnic minorities and people in general. And then I am also the co founder of CareerXcel, which is online women leadership program I launched last year with my partner in US called Jennifer Willey. And this year on International Women's Day, we will be collaborating.

Hera Ali (4:09): We will we will be having our first global collaboration with an insurance company who is rolling out the program for employees in five different countries. So that's very exciting. And then I'm also the cofounder of the Gray Area, the objective of which is to capture experiences of ethnic minorities working here in The UK in the public and the private sector, and I've launched that with my friend and partner, Shneuron Kotaria.

Unknown Speaker (4:33): Awesome.

Hera Ali (4:33): And so, yeah, these are projects that, of course, I am also the leading the International Women Empowerment Events, which, you know, which does events globally and primarily focused on empowering women in Asia and Middle East.

Adrienne Garland (4:47): You know, Hira, it's so funny to, you know, listen to you talk. And in addition, of of course, you know, you have a family and you're doing all of these other things as well. And I find that when I talk to other women, you know, we say, you know, we do this. And then we launch into a laundry list of everything else that we are doing. And just listening to you, I'm like, how are you possibly doing all of this stuff?

Adrienne Garland (5:18): And one of the things that I love about everything that you're saying is that you partner together with people. So, you know, you you seem to have a gift of being able to connect with people. I think that's how we connected. I don't even remember the exact I I feel like I might actually remember the exact moment, But I just remember being very drawn to you and feeling so comfortable talking to you from the very beginning. You have such a, you know, like a positive, happy spirit.

Adrienne Garland (5:53): And, you know, I think that's probably the key for you. But maybe you can talk a little bit about how partnering together with people has been. And, you know, has the experience always been good? Or have there been times where you partnered with somebody and, you know, maybe it didn't work out the way that you wanted it to?

Hera Ali (6:15): So that's a very good question. Thank you so much. And thank you for all your kind words. I'm really flattered. I would say, I think networking and extra virgin and all these qualities, to be honest, I did inherit from my parents because they were really good at networking.

Hera Ali (6:32): In fact, when I was a kid, I didn't really like networking as much. But when I started my own businesses, I realized it's important. And I do love people generally. I just love every Everybody. Everybody.

Hera Ali (6:45): And I think that's the reason why I really thrive in collaborations, and I love to connect with people, to work with with women particularly. Because I personally feel that I think collaborations is the way forward. I think when I was growing up, unfortunately, I did see there was a bit of a queen bee culture, as we'd call it, where women would not be very supportive of other women, and you did not have a lot of female role models to look up to because most of the people in the department, the senior people, would be men, and there would be very few women. And then I think generally also, if a lot of people I a lot might relate to this, growing up, you know, are very very few senior women, and and some of them would be very competitive, and they wouldn't really be as open to you as you would expect them to be, or as you would hope them to be. And that was actually quite disconcerting and very sad, to be honest.

Hera Ali (7:40): But I thankfully, that culture is now sort of kind of disappearing, and women now understand that it's really, really important to uplift each other, to work with each other. And I think when we work together, greater things happen. Because, you know, you are doing something independently, and I'm doing something independently. But if we join forces, I believe then that that equals to so much more. Because there's no point in people working, you know, in their own isolated space.

Hera Ali (8:09): I mean, of course, there will be projects where will you will be working on your own, and you can't really always collaborate with people. But if you have, like, a common mission, for example, when I collaborate with you because, you know, you do these amazing events for women across the globe, and I think that this is such a wonderful collaboration. Just the kind of collaboration of the person is very important to me, to be honest Yeah. Because I don't really I don't think so. I'd I'm comfortable about collaborating with everyone because the person should be and, you know, all the words that you described for me would would would actually be the same words for you.

Hera Ali (8:42): Mhmm. Probably that's the reason why are we connected because, you know, get attracted to people who are like you. Yeah. And, you know, Jennifer in US, the one I'm doing my career excel program with her, she's also an amazing woman, and not one bit of malice in her heart. And she's really nice, you know.

Hera Ali (8:59): Women who are re who really want to help women and support them. So, of course, you know, when you are working with people, there will be disagreements. There will be conflicts. It's if you if you think that there will be no conflicts and there will be no disagreements at all, then that's that's not something which is very realistic. Because, obviously, if you're working with strong independent women, there will be differences of opinions.

Unknown Speaker (9:22): Yes.

Hera Ali (9:22): But how to kind of, you know, draw a line and how to, you know, come together to solve those differences is very important. So I International Women's Empowerment events, I have a team of four people, and they're all four strong Asian empowered women. And, of course, four women in a team means, of course, you have a lot of

Unknown Speaker (9:41): different opinions. 16 opinions. Different

Hera Ali (9:45): opinions, different thought processes, different leadership styles. So, you know, there there's a lot of that. But I think and I think I would confess that when I started this last year, I think there was a bit of anxiety because, you know, you're trying to adjust to each other's styles. Because I think having one person to collaborate with is still easier, but having four women to manage and collaborate was was was a bit tricky. But now I think we've reached that stage because we meet very often, we went out buddies, we discussed, we have any problems other than work till we discuss with each other.

Hera Ali (10:19): So I think we've reached that stage where it's very, very comfortable, and I think it just doesn't happen overnight. Yeah. You have to give relationships time. And even if you're working in a team, you need to give that time. So it's the trust is going to establish slowly and gradually.

Hera Ali (10:33): And I think the most important thing which you need to realize is that people will not work according to what you want them to do because everybody has different personalities. Right? Yes. And I mean, for example, I I think I'm a typically I'm very nice, sociable, likable. But when it comes to work, I it's sometimes I I'm like, you know, the

Unknown Speaker (10:54): You're badass. Come on here. Yeah. We all know it.

Hera Ali (11:00): Oh, I'm sort of like a a t type a personality who really wants everything executed in time and, you know, flawlessly. Well, maybe not flawlessly because, you know, I'm trying to preach women to let go of perfectionism. But yeah. But everything needs to be done in a certain manner. And you have to understand that every person, every team member will will bring a different strength to the table.

Hera Ali (11:22): Yeah. And not everybody can do everything. Yeah. And I think the moment you realize that is is the moment where you will be able to gel in with people better, and then you'll be able to collaborate with people better because, you know, I might be very good at something, and the other person might be very good something else. So when you kind of leverage the strengths of of the team, I think collaborations work wonderfully.

Adrienne Garland (11:44): Do you I I think that this is such a fascinating concept and, you know, I'm I've just launched the She Leads Podcast Network where we have women that are on the platform that have their own individual podcasts. And the idea behind it is that, you know, they're contributing the expertise and the content, and then I'm delivering the sponsorships and we're all sharing in it. So it's really this idea of the collective. And I think that that what you're describing this collaboration is an idea of the collective. So you're each sort of putting something bringing something to the table that is unique and special, but then all participating in the benefits of it.

Adrienne Garland (12:28): Absolutely. Yeah. And I think one of the keys to success is being really clear about what the individual roles are because I can only imagine, you know, with with four people and and everybody probably not wanting to hurt each other's feelings yet wanting to, you know, move forward and they have their own vision for, you know, how they want things to be. I can only imagine that it's it's very difficult to kind of make decisions because when you're not wanting to hurt other people's feelings, you have a different viewpoint. You know, you really have to have this extremely clear and direct communication style.

Adrienne Garland (13:10): It's sort of what this podcast that we're on today is all about. It's, you know, you need to let go of sugarcoating the the bullshit so that you can move forward and accomplish goals. And I think we all need as women when we do come together in this collective way to have a very real outcome, you know, a a profit driven outcome so that we can demonstrate that there is power in the collective. Absolutely.

Hera Ali (13:42): Yeah. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And I think this is so important. I think what you said, we we we we can't really sugarcoat things, and we have to kind of present it the way it should be.

Hera Ali (13:55): Right? I mean, as a lot of times, we as women, we want to be likable. We want to please people. We're people pleasers. And sometimes we do do not really say things which we want to at the right time.

Unknown Speaker (14:08): Right. Because we fear offending people.

Unknown Speaker (14:10): Right. We're afraid.

Hera Ali (14:12): And I think Yeah. Absolutely. We're very we're afraid of losing people. We're afraid of judgment. We're afraid that people might think that, oh my god, you know, she's so rude or she's, you know, the famous b word because she's so bossy.

Hera Ali (14:24): And then so things like that. And I think this is this is a problem with women and I think I have literally I think I still sometimes struggle with that because on on one hand, you want to be nice, you want to be likable. Yes. Absolutely. I mean, as women, unfortunately, we are expected to bring likability to the table.

Hera Ali (14:40): Yeah. So if people see that that's not happening, that's not something which, you know, that people are not able to accept it if we suddenly are become, you know, if you're very firm or very, you know, if we try to be assertive, people find it difficult, but then that's what we need to do. We Right. We really need to be firm and assertive when it is important. I mean, yes, you could be likable, sociable, whatever, all you want, but when you need to be firm and assertive, and when you need to tell people off, and when you need to get things done Yeah.

Hera Ali (15:12): Then you really need to. Because otherwise, you wouldn't be able to survive in this world, honestly speaking, if everything is so

Unknown Speaker (15:21): Rainbows and unicorns.

Unknown Speaker (15:23): Absolutely. So and I think and it's for unfortunately, for women, I think it's a very thin line because Yeah. It's it's like, oh, when you're being assertive, people will probably say, oh, you're being aggressive.

Unknown Speaker (15:35): Right.

Unknown Speaker (15:36): When you're not being aggressive, you're just simply being assertive. If a man is doing the same thing, we all know that, oh my god, you know, he has an amazing leadership style, strong personality. But if the woobie does the same, then it's like, oh god, you know, she's aggressive, she's emotional, she's angry. Yeah. Unpredictable.

Unknown Speaker (15:52): Yeah. That's that's something also which I got in the beginning of my career because I used to be generally nice to people most of the time, but if people didn't give me work or didn't give me what I wanted to on time, so I would like, you know, give them like a shut up call. Yeah. And then they'd be like, oh my god, you know, she was really nice. Yesterday, well, yesterday I was nice because it was for a different reason.

Unknown Speaker (16:14): We were just having a a conversation. And today I want the work. So please give me that assignment right now. Yeah. I want it.

Hera Ali (16:23): So I think, yes, I think it is a little tricky for women, but it is important that we are firm. And that's that's is that the theme of your podcast?

Adrienne Garland (16:33): You know what? It's so funny. So, yes, that is exactly the theme of the podcast. It it's, you know, it's this whole idea of, you know, sugarcoat this motherfucker. You know, it you don't need to to sugarcoat things in order to get things done.

Adrienne Garland (16:51): We as women need to stop sugarcoating what we what we need, what we need to ask for, what our reactions are to things. And even though it might be expected of us to be kind, we need to change what those expectations are. And the only way that we can do it is by pushing the envelope and really speaking what we feel instead of sugarcoating everything. And, you know, I'm being a little on the aggressive side here with the just, you know, my language because I I feel that sometimes we have to go to the other end of the spectrum to come back to the middle. And I I really wanna encourage women to speak their minds.

Adrienne Garland (17:40): Of course, you don't wanna be offending people or, you know, you don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings. This is not about, you know, going from kind to being mean and selfish. Yes. This is about expressing your needs, saying what's on your mind. If a man can do it, a woman can too.

Hera Ali (18:01): Yes. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think it and I loved the description you gave actually, which drives the question. Going to the other side of the spectrum and abusing people and saying everything I want to do to some people and then literally going back in the middle again.

Hera Ali (18:17): But, yeah, sometimes you really need that kind of went out to kind of unleash Yes. That that

Adrienne Garland (18:25): Right. The inner the inner, like, you know, I don't know. The inner the inner wonder woman. The inner bitch. And it's not even that you know, even that is like and I I totally get where that's coming from.

Adrienne Garland (18:37): But it's like even that word is almost like a a judgment word. It's not so much a bitch. It's just, you know, hey. This is how it is. Like, tough.

Adrienne Garland (18:45): It's it's a little bit of a New York attitude. Yeah. But, you know, I also can imagine, you know, just to dive into this a little bit more, you know, culturally, there are many differences too. So, you know, for example, I am from New York and I have a little bit more of an edge. And I do feel a little bit more bold to be able to say what's on my mind.

Adrienne Garland (19:09): But, you know, in The Middle East being, you know, Southeast Asian, there are cultural things. There are religious things that are very ingrained and that make it difficult for women to feel that it's okay that they can express themselves. Is that some of the things that people come to you about?

Unknown Speaker (19:30): Yes. So I think in Asia, like even after I said the b word, notice I said the b word again, didn't say it. I just felt, oh my god. What if my family members listening and then and what if they're like, you know, people from my, I don't know, friends and circle listening, and they'd be like, what is she? What's she about?

Hera Ali (19:48): You know, just just because she's doing well, that she's going around saying these words. So obviously, is there is this shame associated with girls being too loud, or being too, I wouldn't even say rude. I mean, if you were just standing up for yourselves, then people would just see you as somebody who's who's super bold. And I don't well, I don't even have the exact words to say because I don't. It's not really something I'm you are you're not like the nice girl anymore, to be honest.

Unknown Speaker (20:19): Right.

Hera Ali (20:19): So you literally need to be very particular all the time about what are you saying out there in public, what you're wearing, what you're so everything needs to be and I think I've reached that stage of my career where I mean, to be honest, opinions really don't matter to me, but deep down, I am I mean, I would say I'm still very or not. Yes. You know? Yeah. You know, my culture does does does influence a lot of things which I do because, I mean, I am conscious if if somebody sees me doing something which is considered to be a blatant violation of of cultural boundaries.

Unknown Speaker (20:58): Yes.

Hera Ali (20:58): So I think that's the thing. And I think I usually I I think that's also part of my value system. So, I mean, I wouldn't really do things which would be a blatant violation of my of of my values. So I think that's my values are very important to me. But at the same time, like, you know, being firm or being assertive, that doesn't qualify as being a bitch.

Unknown Speaker (21:19): There I said it.

Unknown Speaker (21:20): Right. I said the word.

Unknown Speaker (21:22): I said the word.

Adrienne Garland (21:23): Apologies to anybody. You used it appropriately, and it's it's so good. So, you know, how do you how do you sort of help women get past that feeling like they are doing something that's shameful when when they're just simply being bold and and standing up for themselves? What kind of what kind of advice would you give somebody that is looking to to be more bold in their communication style so that they can get what they want and and almost be a role model for others, but but at the same time not crossing the line?

Hera Ali (22:01): I think what is important is that you need to be true to your own inner personality. And the thing is I am very I would say I'm confident. I love public speaking. I don't have problem interacting with people. I just love like, literally don't mind being in the spotlight.

Hera Ali (22:19): So so the so that is my personality. But at the same time, I would say that I am conservative in many ways because I don't I mean, like I've said these these words the podcast, and there are lot of people who generally when they are writing the text or the content or, you know, doing in their regular language would would be very be very open and they would be using words, which I probably wouldn't. I would refrain from doing it because it's not that I'm I think it's bad. It's just not my style. Sure.

Hera Ali (22:50): So the thing is, the only thing is I think you just need to be you need to identify what your values are and if you if it's okay with you, if you don't have a problem, if you're comfortable using these words, then why not? Or if you're comfortable being in a certain way, if you want to, you know, I you know, there there's this very controversial topic. So I have a lot of friends who have recently kind of taken off the hijab because of x y z reason. Right? Mhmm.

Hera Ali (23:18): And, you know, the problem is because, you know, they don't feel safe on the streets or maybe they they don't really want to kind of cover their head anymore. I mean, who knows? I I don't know the reasons exactly. But but the thing is and then the rest of the people start start judging them, and they say, oh, you will you shouldn't do that. And once you've worn the hijab, then you should continue doing it.

Hera Ali (23:39): And I don't believe in all that, because I am a practicing Muslim. But at the same time, I do believe that everybody has a freedom of doing what is best for them without other people judging them. So as long as it's good for you. Mhmm. And what what what is good for you should should be okay with the rest of the world.

Hera Ali (23:55): So the the moment you accept yourself, and the moment you say, well, this is what's good for me, and this is what I'm gonna do. Yeah. I think that's when and and if you start accepting yourself, then that's when other people will start accepting you.

Adrienne Garland (24:07): That that's profound, Hira. I I think that that is I think that's almost the definition of a value. Right? Yes. Do you feel on the inside is is right for you?

Adrienne Garland (24:22): And that is where confidence emanates from.

Hera Ali (24:26): Absolutely. So I mean, for example, if I go to an event, I I don't drink alcohol. Right? I have I have halal food, but at the same time, it doesn't stop me from going out and mingling with a lot lot of women in the evening who probably just go out and have a drink in the pub. So and so they would probably they would still invite me and they would they would order me juice or water.

Hera Ali (24:49): So I mean, I am literally I haven't really compromised on my values. I'm if I go out and sometimes I'm fasting when I go out with friends, and I will just wait. And then the moment when the

Unknown Speaker (25:00): Why are you torturing yourself?

Unknown Speaker (25:03): No. No. No. But I usually go at a time when the fast is about to break. Okay.

Hera Ali (25:07): Good. Yeah. So I literally just wait for five minutes, and then and then I go and have food. So the what I'm trying to say is that, you know, you still could stick to your values and your beliefs and your practices and also get along with with people who who don't have the same values and practices. Right?

Hera Ali (25:25): It's it's perfectly alright. It's all about connectivity. It's all about

Unknown Speaker (25:28): Yeah.

Hera Ali (25:28): Connecting people in other levels. So it's my my whole thing about you know, ever since I moved to London, I think the one thing which I never did in because being an Asian Muslim women, a lot of people find it very difficult. You know, they have a cultural crisis or an identity crisis. Now I'm very I'm very, very, I would say, like, not fixated, but I I just know that these are the things these are the lines which I don't wanna cross. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (25:53): Right?

Unknown Speaker (25:53): The bright line. Yeah.

Hera Ali (25:55): Yeah. Exactly. And and at the other hand, I I I love networking. I love meeting people. So, I mean, what are the ways in which I could balance both of them?

Hera Ali (26:04): And and to be honest, there are always ways which you could balance both these sides of your whatever your values, your practices, and beliefs. I mean, you don't have really have to go all out and say, oh my god, you know, because I don't drink alcohol, I'm not gonna go out with anybody or because I don't I eat a certain certain type of food, I'm not going to go to any of these restaurants. You just, I guess, flexibility is the thing. Mhmm. You obviously need to be flexible.

Hera Ali (26:29): And just know that these are the values I can compromise on, and these are the values I can't compromise on. Right. It's as simple as that. So once you identify that this is something which I am okay about doing, and this is something which I'm absolutely not okay about doing. And I think once you do your self analysis, and you know what what it is, and what are those things which you can't really not do, because it's it it will be a strong con and it has nothing to do with family, culture, religion.

Hera Ali (26:56): It's all to do with you. Yeah. So this is something which I will never do because this will be a super you know, this will be like a huge conflict with what I believe in. Right. So I won't do that.

Hera Ali (27:06): And this is what I will I'm okay to do do these things because this is not a conflict. So I think that's it's a personal choice.

Adrienne Garland (27:13): And that that is truly the definition of, you know, self empowerment. It's it's knowing yourself so well and understanding what your value drivers are and taking that with you wherever you go and in whatever situation you find yourself in. And I think that that is an extremely powerful position for a woman to be operating from. And these you know, that type of an approach is really one that I think that would benefit, you know, many more women so that we're not feeling all of this outside pressure to be this or do this or say this or act like this or look like this. You gotta come from that place on the inside that is empowered from the inside out.

Adrienne Garland (28:07): You know, no one else can empower you because that suggests that they have the power and they're giving it to you. You literally need to be empowered from within.

Hera Ali (28:18): Absolutely. I love this. I love these last three lines absolutely so much because this is exactly what it is. You don't need others to give power to you. You need to empower yourself from within, and you need to just do you.

Unknown Speaker (28:31): Yeah. Love that.

Unknown Speaker (28:32): What what's good for you, what's what's not good for you. I mean, I think, you know, we're at this age where we are we're no longer teenagers.

Unknown Speaker (28:42): Well, I am. Teenagers

Hera Ali (28:45): at heart. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. But I think once you have that, you know, when you have these boundaries of, and when you know that this is what I can do and this is what I don't wanna do, I think it just becomes very easy.

Hera Ali (28:57): And I think a lot of people are just very scared to be vulnerable. I was also telling this somebody so I was telling sharing this with somebody two days ago when they said that, well, when you move to London, this would this must have been a very new environment to you, then how did you adjust because, you know, coming from Dubai and Middle East and Pakistan? And I say, well, the thing is I don't mind being vulnerable. So for example, if I mean, I've done my o levels and a levels, you know, back in Pakistan, so communication has not been such an issue. My English, you know, speaking language and all that has not been such an issue.

Hera Ali (29:29): But there are, of course, certain etiquette or certain things which I may not be aware of because, you know, they're very British and and and I'm not British. Yeah. Right? Because I am mean, I love British people, but obviously, there are certain things which I may not be aware of. And if it's if you're not aware of something, then it's better just to say it out loud and say, I'm sorry.

Hera Ali (29:50): I don't know this how this this works. Can you could you help me? Yeah. And there's no shame in confessing that you don't know things. Because if you just want to just to I think that also creates a lot of stress and anxiety in women, and also in men.

Hera Ali (30:05): Yes. Because you want to try to fit in with people, and you want to try and do things which you're not aware of. You have no clue, no idea what needs to be done, but you just need to kind of do everything just to, you know, be in in the crowd.

Adrienne Garland (30:19): Right. To prove. To try and prove something. But in in your quest to prove that you fit in, you you actually demonstrate that you don't fit in. And I I think what you're saying is so spot on because to be vulnerable and to be able to say, you know, hey.

Adrienne Garland (30:39): I've never, you know, heard that before. I've never experienced that before. And to almost ask somebody like, hey. Can you explain that to me? Or can you help me to, like, do this in, you know, in in the way that's acceptable?

Adrienne Garland (30:52): People want you know, I I believe that people, except for the real, you know, jerks, I think people really do want to help. And then that's the way that you can build a connection with somebody that is real.

Hera Ali (31:09): Absolutely. Because I think authenticity is just so important. I think it's it's one of the most underrated leadership terms sorry, leadership qualities or traits out there. But it is so important to be to be authentic, to be to tell people that, well, see, this is what I know, and this is what I don't know. And this is what I want to do, and this is what I don't wanna do.

Adrienne Garland (31:30): And I think that's the I think that's the dark side of perfectionism too. It's like if you believe that you need to be perfect and so you need to know how to behave and what to say and everything in every single situation, you're gonna fall on your face. So you need to let go of wanting to put this like perfect image out there or, you know, perfect behavior out there because you're gonna actually turn people off. And the perfectionism is is the thing that is getting in your way. So that's why I love the the work that you do and, you know, what you're promoting to to people and everything because you you do have to be real.

Adrienne Garland (32:10): You have to be such a real person. I mean, look. You know, I was outside of my comfort zone when we went to the Win Trade Awards. We were you know, we had high tea at parliament, which I've never been to that. I didn't know how to behave, what to wear, what to do.

Adrienne Garland (32:27): But I was able to connect with you and so many other women that I still keep in touch with to this day. And, you know, if I was concerned that I didn't have on the right hat or or, you know, eat the right eat the the little sandwich the right way. I I would have been so obsessed with myself and and not been able to connect with others.

Hera Ali (32:50): And I think that is absolutely right, Adrienne. I couldn't agree more. And I think if you are able to connect people on a very authentic level, then these are the friendships that are going to last. But if you if people only like you for a a certain image that you portrayed to them, then I'm because I'm sorry, we can't be perfectionists all the time. It's it's exhausting.

Hera Ali (33:10): Yeah. And the reason why, you know, in the survey that I did for my book, a huge majority of women feel this pressure of am I good enough? And they suffer from imposter syndrome and all these challenges which they experience are interrelated. So because they feel they're not good enough, they really exert every effort they can to be perfect, to do their best in whatever they're doing, And because of all that, they wouldn't self promote. They they would be scared to be vulnerable, and all this, you know, internally leads to stress and anxiety.

Hera Ali (33:43): So like literally, all these internal challenges are so so related. And I think the biggest problem for women is this fear. Fear of failure, fear of success, fear of judgment, fear of everything. I mean, it's really sad. It is.

Hera Ali (33:59): Like, women are so it's it's just one thing which which kind of, I think

Unknown Speaker (34:06): This holds us back. This is this is the this is the

Unknown Speaker (34:09): holds us back. You know?

Adrienne Garland (34:09): Exactly. And excuse my language because I I'm a New Yorker. So but, you know, this is the shit that holds us back. This is this is the stuff that, you know, I I see and that I I I just wanna shake somebody and be say, stop it. Like, you're not getting anywhere.

Adrienne Garland (34:28): You're not doing anything. You're you're digging yourself into a hole that is becoming harder and harder to get out of. And Yeah. And that's why I'm so passionate about, you know, helping women to to give them voice, to literally be creating a platform that allows them to use their voice and and get it out there so that we can hear all these diverse thoughts and opinions and voices so that maybe somebody who's suffering from impostor syndrome can listen in and say, you know what? That person that I can relate to that person.

Adrienne Garland (35:04): That person sounds like me. And if she can do it, then I can too.

Unknown Speaker (35:07): I can do it too. And then what is the worst that can happen? I think anything that doesn't I just keep on asking this question and put this in my book too. That anything that, you know what's the worst that can happen? Anything that doesn't kill you Right.

Hera Ali (35:20): Makes you stronger. So if you're not gonna die, nobody's dying. So then then I guess just go ahead and do it. And we all make mistakes. We all make blunders.

Hera Ali (35:29): We have these Oh, yeah. Literally weird things that we do, and then we look back at it and we're like, oh my god. What if I've done this better? But then and then fine to experience shame and embarrassment or whatever for temporarily. But I think it's just important to move past beyond these things because we as women tend to linger on failures for so long.

Adrienne Garland (35:48): Yeah. I know I do. I that you know, it's so funny. That is something that happened to me. I had I I guess you could call it a failure.

Adrienne Garland (35:57): I'm trying not to call it that. You know, I had a it actually ended up becoming the thing that allowed me to launch the business that I have today, but I had a big failure in on the corporate side. And it because my, I I guess, my self esteem and my self worth and my self definition was very caught up in, you know, what I had achieved on the corporate side when that didn't work anymore. I didn't even know who I was.

Hera Ali (36:25): Yeah. No. That happens, Adrian. And I think it's very natural. I think women do tend to think about failures a lot.

Hera Ali (36:32): But I think if we reframe that failure and say, this is just a temporary I mean, it's I mean, it's not even just a roadblock. Sometimes it's a blessing in disguise because then it leads to such amazing things, which we had previously not imagined you would do. Yeah. So I think I think, in fact, I I always tell these people that failures are really important for you. You know?

Hera Ali (36:54): If you have failed in a big way, that is so healthy. I

Unknown Speaker (36:58): must be the healthiest chick out there. Yes. It is so because I failed in a big way.

Hera Ali (37:05): It was so good. It's so good for your for your self esteem, for your growth, for your for everything. And and you know, it could be and and do I mean, who knows? Even if we do make mistakes, we're humans. Right?

Hera Ali (37:20): So Yeah. Like, it's alright. I mean, I mean, just move on. I mean, that's fine. I mean, as long as you've learned from your mistake, as long as you know that this is something which I I don't need to do anymore, then then that's fine.

Hera Ali (37:32): You've learned your lesson, just move on. And I think everybody fails. I think there isn't any successful person in the face of this heart who would say, oh, I never failed because that would be hugely unusual. Everybody fails. And I think failure is actually good for you.

Hera Ali (37:46): It's like vitamins. If you don't fail, then you don't grow.

Adrienne Garland (37:49): Yeah. So good. Such good stuff. So, you know, I would love to hear about the international women entrepreneur event that you did in The Maldives last year. And Yes.

Adrienne Garland (38:03): Let's talk a tiny bit about what we're looking to do together in Dubai. So Absolutely. Would love to hear about that. Yay. Yay.

Unknown Speaker (38:12): So excited.

Hera Ali (38:14): I know. We did the so International Women's Department events was, like, literally created last year with the objective of connecting the eastern and the western women. And we wanted to take, like, western women to Asia and Middle East, and then make those women aware that that, you know, people in women in the West too face challenges similar to you. Mhmm. But this is what they do.

Hera Ali (38:36): I mean, you're not in this alone. So the hash tag of a lot of my projects is in this together. Mhmm. Because we're in this together, and then, you know, you and for me, it was a very liberating feeling. Honestly, Adrian, when I moved to London, I realized that I'm not in this alone.

Hera Ali (38:50): So I thought people would be smashing lost ceilings and breaking barriers and doing, you know, amazing stuff here. But when I came to London, I realized, oh, wow. The challenges are pretty similar to the women in the East. Yeah. So that was one of the reasons.

Hera Ali (39:01): And also to for the women of the West to know that the women in the East are also doing brilliant things, and they're empowered, and they're doing great fantastic stuff to to literally bring visibility to them. So that was the objective. And then last year, we launched this conference in Maldives. We took a lot of international speakers. The event was a was a massive hit.

Hera Ali (39:21): We had a lot of support from Maldives. We had the gender minister attending. We had male allies. We identified strong male allies who were like who acted like male ambassadors for the events. So there was member of parliament, there were CEOs of different companies, and then there were women for public and private sector.

Hera Ali (39:39): And we talked about things like leadership and visibility and sexual harassment. We we had Madeline Black, who's a very inspirational woman. She's a she's a rape survivor. And we literally, with dialogue, started a mini Me Too movement in the room, which was just so amazing because everybody started opening up. Because people you know, in Asia, usually I know the Me Too movement has become like a big thing in in the West, but in the East and, you know, particularly countries like Asia and Middle East, it's it's still not something which is discussed or has gained momentum.

Hera Ali (40:17): People consider it to be like a taboo topic, and people wouldn't confess. Because it was such a nice empowered space, literally people started opening up. Talked about and, you know, we had all sorts of people, women in the team who are now strong and independent, but who have had things from their past. For example, somebody had a very abusive childhood. Somebody went through or experienced childhood bullying.

Hera Ali (40:37): Somebody went through, sexual trauma. Mhmm. And, you know, people who went through divorces and financial abuses and, you know, domestic abuse. So all sorts of different women who are now doing brilliantly. So they shared their stories, and I think there was so much energy in the room.

Hera Ali (40:53): And then we also had a qigong instructor, which definitely I recommend taking to Dubai as well because the qigong instructor, every time he would you know, we would discuss a heavy topic, he would do this three minute of you know, or two minutes of de stressing exercise, and he would be tapping, and, you know, we would be doing these different really nice immigrating activities. Wow. And by the time we left the room the second day, the energy was so different. So literally, discussed financial awareness, how important it is women to be financially, empowered, and then of course sexual harassment. We also talked about online safety and abuse.

Hera Ali (41:32): And in Pakistan, we again have similar topics which we're going to do. And then in Dubai, I think, is going to be such a wonderful experience. Because again, Dubai is is a city with 85% expats, and such it's an amazing, you know, vibrant city, and I'm so excited that I'm going there with you.

Unknown Speaker (41:49): Oh, me too. Oh, I can't wait. There's so much interest just from everybody that I talk to. All the women that are in my network are like, Adrienne, I am coming with you. So we might have a lot of people from at least the East Coast that are coming to Dubai.

Unknown Speaker (42:06): So watch out.

Hera Ali (42:07): Oh, wow. I think that's amazing, Adrienne. Because I think I think this is really, really nice. The energy of the room is so different because, you know, you have you have like, you know, the eastern and the western women together working towards the common objective. And I think it's just such a nice, powerful feeling of in this together.

Adrienne Garland (42:27): Yeah. That's so good, Hira. I love the in this together. Everybody should, you know, be using that hashtag all over the place and and really showing that by, you know, by being together and by being in this together that we can we can do great things. You know, I I also wanted to just comment on the conference in The Maldives, and I think that what you were describing about how women felt comfortable to share their stories.

Adrienne Garland (42:55): I think that that is something that is a piece of magic that happens every time women get together in an environment that feels safe and that's a little bit more on the, I would say, quote unquote, smaller side, you know, the the under 200 people type of a crowd. I see it happening every year when I do the She Leads annual conference. You have just described it. This is something that is critically important for women to be able to do together is to come together in in an environment that is safe, where there's support, where there's also this incredible feeling of, you know, you can do this and and where there is this practical advice given on how to move forward in in any aspect. We don't do that enough as women, and that's why, you know, what I do with with the She Leads conferences, what we're doing together in Dubai, what you've done in The Maldives, this stuff needs to continue.

Adrienne Garland (43:57): And while those bigger, you know, flagship type of conferences are are great and they definitely provide inspiration, They need to be tempered with these smaller intimate events because I believe that that's where the change happens.

Hera Ali (44:16): Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think, you know, literally the feedback was so positive. It was so nice. Yeah.

Hera Ali (44:24): And we came back so refreshed and energized ourselves, because you know, even the feeling that you've been able to help another person, or or why is there worse? I mean, they could they they would help you because they would they would share their stories, and then you just

Unknown Speaker (44:40): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (44:40): It's it's it's a really out of the world experience. And I think we will experience this together, Amen, in August.

Unknown Speaker (44:47): Yes.

Hera Ali (44:48): And it's sorry. In July.

Unknown Speaker (44:50): In in July. That's right. You're you're doing August Pakistan.

Hera Ali (44:55): Yes. I'm doing August Pakistan. And it's going to be brilliant. Yay.

Adrienne Garland (45:02): So we have really, I think, covered probably one topic in in a a great depth of experience, which I think is amazing. And and thank you so much for that. Why don't you tell people where they can, you know, find you, follow you, reach out to you.

Hera Ali (45:19): Perfect. So I am very active in social media. I'm I think most active on LinkedIn where you can find me as Hira Ali coach. Then on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, my handles are AdvancingYou. So if you put AdvancingYou, that's where I am on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and then my main website is www.advancingyourpotential.com which has links to all the different things like including my book.

Unknown Speaker (45:51): And yes, please go buy my book. Yes.

Unknown Speaker (45:52): Buy the book. Buy the book. It's amazing. Her way to the top. Yay.

Adrienne Garland (45:57): Yay. Hera, thank you so much. I can't wait to just, you know, continue our conversation about everything, and I would love to have you back on. Maybe after we do the Dubai conference together, we can talk about all the incredible things that came out of that. So I'd like to, you know, give you an open invitation to come back whenever you'd like.

Hera Ali (46:18): Brilliant. I would love to be. I love talking to you.

Unknown Speaker (46:21): I know. Me too. It's okay.

Unknown Speaker (46:22): Thank you, Adrienne. It was absolutely wonderful.

Unknown Speaker (46:25): Thank you so much. This is the She Leads Podcast Network.